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the Venerable Bede
Apprenti/Apprentice
Inscrit le : 04 Nov 2007
Messages: 11
Localisation : Sunderland, UK
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 Posté le : Dim Nov 04, 2007 8:25 pm Sujet du message: Cad Goddeu or The Battle of the Trees |
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Hello,
I'd like to talk about the Cad Goddeu, this celtic poem where the warriors are
trees.
One says that it holds the secret of ancient science.
What do u think about that?
Bede
Dernière édition : the Venerable Bede le Mer Nov 07, 2007 9:53 am; Edité 1 fois |
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Mev
Apprenti/Apprentice
Inscrit le : 06 Août 2007
Messages: 33
Localisation : Turquie
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| Posté le : Lun Nov 05, 2007 6:26 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hi Venerable Bede, or should I call you Saint?
Tirstly, we need to read the poem. And because everybody is not as litterate
as me or you  here is the English version (quite long...) I found on a website
(http://kadgoddeu.free.fr):
| Citation: | I have been a multitude of shapes,
Before I assumed a consistent form.
I have been a sword, narrow, variegated,
I will believe when it is apparent.
I have been a tear in the air,
I have been in the dullest of stars.
I have been a word among letters,
I have been a book in the origin.
I have been the light of lanterns,
A year and a half.
I have been a continuing bridge,
Over three score river-mouths.
I have been a course, I have been an eagle.
I have been a coracle in the sea.
I have been complaint in the banquet.
I have been a drop in a shower;
I have been a sword in the grasp of a hand.
I have been a shield in battle.
I have been a string in a harp,
Disguised for nine years.
In water, in foam,
I have been a sponge in fire,
I have been wood in covert.
I am not he who will not sing of
A combat though small,
The conflict of the battle of Godau of sprigs.
Against the Guledig of Prydain,
There passed central horses,
Fleets full of riches.
There passed an animal with wide jaws,
On it were a hundred heads.
And a battle was contested
Under the root of his tongue;
And another battle there is
In his occiput.
A black sprawling toad,
With a hundred claws on it,
A snake speckled, crested.
A hundred souls through sin
Shall be tormented in its flesh.
I have been in Care Vevenir,
Thither hastened grass and trees.
Minstrels were singing,
Warrior bands were wondering,
At the exaltation of the Brython,
That Gwydyon effected.
There was a calling on the Creator,
Upon Christ for causes,
Until when the Eternal
Should deliver those whom he had made.
The Lord answered them,
Through language and elements:
Take the forms of the principal trees,
Arranging yourselves in battle array,
And restraining the public.
Inexperienced in battle hand to hand.
When the trees were enchanted,
In the expectation of not being trees,
The trees uttered their voices
From strings of harmony
The disputes ceased.
Let us cut short heavy days,
A female restrained the din.
She came forth altogether lovely.
The head of the line, the head was a female.
The advantage of a sleepless cow
Would not make us give way.
The blood of men up to our thighs,
The greatest of importunate mental exertions
Sported into the world.
And one has ended
From considering the deluge,
And Christ crucified,
And the day of judgement near at hand.
The alder-trees, the head of the line,
Formed the van.
The willows and quicken-trees
Came late to the army.
Plum-trees, they are scarce,
Unlogged for men.
The elaborate meddler-trees,
The objects of contention.
The prickly rose bushes,
Against a host of giants,
The raspberry brake did
What is better failed
For the security of life.
Privet and woodbine
And ivy on its front,
Life furze to the combat
The cherry-tree was provoked.
The birch, not withstanding his high mind,
Was late before he was arrayed.
Not because of his cowardice,
But on account of his greatness.
The laburnum held in mind,
That your wild nature was foreign.
Pine-trees in the porch,
The chair of distribution
By me greatly exalted,
In the presence of kings.
The elm with his retinue,
Did not go aside a foot;
He would fight with the centre,
And the flanks, and the rear.
Hazel-trees, it was judged
That ample thy mental exertion.
The privet, happy is his lot,
The bull of battle, the lord of the world.
Morawg and Morydd
Were made prosperous in pines.
Holly, it was tinted with green,
He was a hero.
The hawthorn, surrounded by prickles,
With pain at his hand.
The aspen-wood has been topped,
It was topped in battle.
The fern that was plundered.
The broom in the van of the army,
In the trenches he was hurt.
The gorse did not do well,
Notwithstanding let it overspread.
The heath was victorious, keeping off on all sides.
The common people were charmed,
During the proceeding of the men.
The oak, quick moving,
Before him, tremble heaven and earth.
A valiant door-keeper against an enemy,
His name is considered.
The blue-bells combined,
And caused a consternation.
In rejecting, were rejected.
Pear-trees, the best intruders
in the conflict on the plain.
A very wrathful wood,
The chestnut is bashful,
The opponent of happiness,
The jet has become black,
The mountain has become crooked,
The woods have become a kiln,
Existing formerly has the great seas,
Sine was heard the shout:---
The tops of the birch covered us with leaves.
And transformed us, and changed our faded state.
The branches of the oak have ensnared us
From the Gwarchan Mwelderw.
Laughing on the side of rock,
The role is not an ardent nature.
Not of mother and father was I made,
Did my Creator create me.
Of nine-formed faculties,
Of the fruit of fruits,
Of the fruit of the primordial God,
Of primroses and blossoms on the hill,
Of the earth, of an earthly course,
When I was formed,
Of the flower nettles,
Of the water of the ninth wave.
I was enchanted by Math,
Before I became immortal,
I was enchanted by Gwydyon
The great purifier of the Brithon,
Of Eurwys, of Euron,
of Euron, of Modron.
Of five battalions of scientific ones,
Teachers, children of Math.
When the removal occurred,
I was enchanted by the Guledig.
When he was half-burnt,
I was enchanted by the sage
Of Sages, in the primitive world.
When I had a being;
When the host of the world was in dignity,
The bard was accustomed to benefits.
To the song of praise I am inclined, which the tongue recites.
I played in twilight,
I slept in purple;
I was truly in the enchantment
With Dylan, the son of the wave.
In the circumference, in the middle,
Between the knees of kings,
Scattering spears not keen,
From heaven when came,
To the great deep, floods,
In the battle there will be
Four score hundreds,
That will divide according to their will.
Are they neither older or younger,
Than myself in their divisions.
A wonder, Canhwr are born, every one of nine hundred.
He was with me also,
With my sword spotted with blood.
Honour was allotted to me
By the Lord, and protection (was) where he was.
If I come to where the boar was killed,
He will compose, he will decompose,
He will form languages.
The strong-handed gleaner, his name,
With a gleam he rules his numbers.
They would spread out in a flame,
When I shall go on high.
I have been a speckled snake on the hill,
I have been a viper in Llyn.
I have been a bill-hook crooked that cuts,
I have been a ferocious spear
With my chasuble and bowl
I will prophesy not badly.
Four score smokes
On every one that bring.
Five battalions of arms
Will be caught by my knife.
Six steeds of yellow hue
A hundred times better is
my cream-colored steed,
Swift as the sea-mew
Which will not pass
Between the sea and the shore.
Am I not pre-eminent in the field of blood?
Over it are a hundred chieftains.
Crimson (is) the gem of my belt,
Gold my shield border.
There has not been born, in the gap,
That has been visiting me,
Except Goronwy,
From the dales of Edrywy.
Long white my fingers,
It is long since I have been a herdsman.
I have travelled the earth,
Before I was proficient in learning.
I have travelled, I made a circuit,
I slept in a hundred islands.
A hundred Caers I have dwelt in.
Ye intelligent Druids,
Declare to Arthur,
What is there more early
Than I that they sing of.
And one is come
From considering the deluge
And Christ crucified,
And the day of future doom.
A golden gem in a golden jewel.
I am splendid
And shall be wanton
From the oppression of the metal-workers.
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the Venerable Bede
Apprenti/Apprentice
Inscrit le : 04 Nov 2007
Messages: 11
Localisation : Sunderland, UK
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| Posté le : Mar Nov 06, 2007 1:53 pm Sujet du message: |
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Call me as u like, my son 
And thanks for the poem.
So, there are several topics in it. The story of Gwyddyon, the battle strictly
speaking, etc.
I am curious about these trees. Some experts talked about the calendar of the
trees. What do you think?
Bede |
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Akira
Apprenti/Apprentice
Inscrit le : 17 Août 2007
Messages: 27
Localisation : Island
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| Posté le : Jeu Nov 29, 2007 10:38 am Sujet du message: |
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Mon anglais étant aproximatif, je causerai en françois si ça ne vous gène
pas.
D'ailleurs, j'aurais bien aimé avoir la trad du Kad Goddeu en françois. Sinon
je voulais dire une chose, l'animisme celte, ou breton, a ça en commun avec
l'animisme japonais qu'il vénère les arbres. Chez les Bretons, l'arbre, ou le
bosquet d'arbres sur une colline déterminait le dieu de la colline. Une sorte
de code barre de ladivinité. Chaque essence d'arbre se réfère à un symbole,
prenez tous les symboles que forme le bosquet et vous avez le dieu du coin.
C'est d'ailleurs amusant de voir cet attachement pour l'arbre quand on sait
maintenant que ce sont les forêts qui produisent l'oxygène et qui sont les
dernières remparts pour la protection de la couche d'ozone.
Ils étaient pas si con que ça les anciens, were they?_________________________________________________________
Sur le fil de l'épée |
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John Doe
Errant/Wanderer
Inscrit le : 05 Juil 2007
Messages: 168
Localisation : France
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| Posté le : Jeu Nov 29, 2007 10:44 am Sujet du message: |
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Eh Akira, si t'avais vu plus haut, Mev avait donné l'adresse d'un site sur le
Kad Goddeu (http://kadgoddeu.free.fr).
Sur ce site y'a la version française. Je la reproduis ici en espérant qu'ils
f'ront pas la gueule. Sinon, z'avez qu'à me censurer, ça m'gène pas 
| Citation: | J'ai revêtu une multitude d'aspects
Avant d'acquérir ma forme définitive,
Il m'en souvient très clairement,
J'ai été une lance étroite et dorée,
Je crois en ce qui est clair,
J'ai été goutte de pluie dans les airs,
J'ai été la plus profonde des étoiles,
J'ai été mot parmi les lettres,
J'ai été livre dans l'origine,
J'ai été lumière de la lampe,
Pendant une année et demie,
J'ai été un immense pont, jeté sur trois vingtaines d'abers.
J'ai été chemin, j'ai été aigle,
J'ai été bateau de pêcheur sur la mer,
J'ai été victuailles du festin,
J'ai été goutte de l'averse,
J'ai été une épée dans l'étreinte des mains,
J'ai été bouclier dans la bataille,
J'ai été corde d'une harpe,
Ainsi pendant neuf années.
Dans l'eau, dans l'écume,
J'ai été éponge dans le feu,
J'ai été arbre au bois mystérieux.
"Je ne suis pas celui qui ne chantera pas
Le combat, quoique je sois petit.
Je chanterai le combat des arbrisseaux
Devant le chef de Bretagne,
Gardien des chevaux rapides
Et maître de tant de flottes.
"Il y avait un animal aux larges mâchoires,
Avec une centaine de têtes.
Un combat fut disputé
Sur la racine de sa langue,
Et on se battit une autre fois
Sur le dos de sa tête.
C'était un noir crapaud
Se prélassant sur cent griffes,
Un serpent tacheté surmonté d'une crête.
Cent âmes ayant péché
Etaient tourmentées dans sa chair.
"J'ai été à Kaer Vevenir
Où affluaient les arbres et les herbes.
Les musiciens chantaient, les hommes de guerre s'étonnaient :
Une résurrection des Bretons
Fut faite par Gwyddyon.
On en appela au créateur
Et au Christ pour juger le procès,
Jusqu'à ce que l'Eternel
Voulût bien aider ses créatures.
Le Seigneur répondit
Par la voix des éléments :
Prenez les formes des arbres,
Rangez-vous en ligne de bataille,
Ecartez tous ceux
Qui sont maladroits au corps à corps.
"Alors ils furent enchantés en arbres,
Et dans l'attente de n'être plus arbres,
Les arbres élevèrent leur voix
En quatre flots d'harmonie.
Les combats cessèrent.
Arrêtons les jours de violence !
"Alors contenant le tumulte, une femme
S'avança, provocante.
En tête de la troupe était une femme.
Les avantages d'une femme sans pudeur
Ne nous feront point céder !
Le sang des hommes jaillira jusqu'à nos cuisses !
"Le plus grand des trois désirs guerriers
Fut mis en jeu sur le monde
Et on cessa de penser
Au déluge
Au Christ crucifié
Et au jour proche du jugement.
"Les aulnes, en tête de la troupe,
Formèrent l'avant-garde,
Les saules et les sorbiers
Se mirent en rang à leur suite,
Les pruniers qui sont rares,
Etonnèrent les hommes.
"Les nouveaux néfliers
Furent les pivots de la bataille,
Les buissons de roses épineuses
Luttèrent contre une grande foule,
Les framboisiers, dressés en fourrés,
Furent les meilleurs à prouver
La fragilité de la vie.
"Le troène et chèvrefeuille,
Avec du lierre sur le front,
Partirent au combat avec l'ajonc.
Le cerisier joua les provocateurs,
Le bouleau malgré son esprit élevé,
Fut placé à l'arrière,
Non pas en raison de sa lâcheté,
Mais bien de sa grandeur.
Le cytise doré prouva
Sa nature sauvage à l'étranger.
"Les pins se tenaient à l'avant,
Au centre de la mêlée
Que j'exaltais grandement
En présence des rois.
L'orme et ses fidèles
Ne bougèrent pas d'un pied.
Ils combattaient contre le centre,
Contre le flanc et les arrières.
"Quant aux noisetiers, on put juger
Que très grande était leur rage guerrière.
Heureux fut le rôle du troène ;
Il fut le taureau du combat, le maître du monde.
Morawg et Morydd
Firent des prouesses sous forme de pins.
Le houx fut éclaboussé de vert,
Il fut brave entre tous.
"L'aubépine, se gardant de tous côtés,
Avaient les mains blessées.
Le tremble fut élagué,
Il fut élagué dans la mêlée.
La fougère fut saccagée.
Le genêt, à l'avant,
Fut blessé dans un fossé.
L'ajonc ne fut pas indemne,
Bien qu'il se répandit partout.
La bruyère fut victorieuse, se gardant de touscôtés,
La foule était charmée
Pendant ce combat des hommes.
"Le chêne, rapide dans sa marche,
Faisait trembler ciel et terre.
Ce fut un vaillant gardien contre l'ennemi,
Son nom est fort considéré.
Les clochettes bleues se battirent
Et causèrent grande douleur :
Elles écrasaient, se faisaient écraser,
D'autres étaient transpercées.
"Les poiriers furent les grands pourfendeurs
Du combat de la plaine,
A cause de leur violence.
La forêt fut un torrent de cendres.
Les châtaigniers timides
N'eurent guère de triomphe.
Le jais devint noir,
La montagne devint rabougrie,
La forêt fut pleine de trous
Comme autrefois les grandes mers,
Depuis que fut entendu le cri de guerre.
"Alors le faîte du bouleau nous couvrit de ses feuilles
Et métamorphosa notre aspect flétri.
Les branches du chêne nous enchantèrent
Par les incantations de Mael-Derw,
Souriant auprès du rocher.
"Le Seigneur n'est pas d'une nature ardente.
Il n'a ni père ni mère.
"Quand je vins à la vie,
Mon créateur me forma
Par le fruit des fruits,
Par le fruit du dieu primordial,
Par les primeroses et les fleurs de la colline,
Par les fleurs des arbres et des buissons,
Par la terre et sa course terrestre,
J'ai été formé
Par les fleurs de l'ortie,
Par l'eau du neuvième flot.
J'ai été marqué par Math
Avant de devenir immortel,
J'ai été marqué par Gyddyon,
Le grand purificateur des Bretons,
Par Eurwys et par Euron,
Par Euron et par Modron,
Par cinq fois cinq maîtres de science,
Par les savants enfants de Math.
Lors de la grande séparation,
J'ai été enchanté par le maître,
Quand il fut à demi-brûlé.
"Par le Sage des Sages, je fus marqué
Avant l'existence du monde,
Au temps où je reçus la vie,
Dignes étaient les peuples du monde,
Les bardes étaient comblés de bienfaits.
"Je me suis incliné devant le chant de gloire,
J'ai joué dans la nuit,
J'ai dormi dans l'aurore.
"J'ai été dans la barque,
Avec Dylan, fils de la Vague,
Sur une couche, au centre,
Entre les genoux des rois,
Lorsque les eaux comme des lances inattendues
Tombèrent du ciel
Au plus profond de l'abîme.
"Dans la bataille il y aura
Quatre fois vingt centaines.
Ils agiront selon leur volonté.
Il n'y a ni plus vieux, ni plus jeune
Que moi dans leurs troupes.
Une merveille : cent hommes sont nés,
Chacun des neuf cents était avec moi.
Mon épée fut tâchée de sang.
Un grand honneur me fut attribué
Par le maître, et protection où il était.
Si je vais là où fut tué le Sanglier,
Il composera, il décomposera,
Il composera des louanges,
Celui dont le nom est brillant et la main puissante :
Avec un éclair, il contient ses troupes
Qui se répandent comme une flamme sur les hauteurs.
"Sur les hauteurs de la montagne, j'ai été serpenttacheté,
J'ai été vipère dans le lac,
J'ai été étoile au bec recourbé,
J'ai été un vieux prêtre
Avec ma chasuble et ma coupe.
"Je ne fais point de mauvaises prophéties.
Je prédis dans quatre vingtaines de fumées
Le sort imparti à chaque homme :
Cinq fois cinq troupes en armes.
J'ai maté sous mon genou
Six coursiers de couleur jaune.
Mais cent fois meilleur
Est mon cheval Melygan :
Il est doux comme un oiseau de mer
Qui ne quitte jamais
Le rivage tranquille.
"J'ai été le héros des prairies sanglantes,
Au milieu de cent chefs.
Rouge est la pierre de ma ceinture,
Mon bouclier est bordé d'or.
"Ils ne sont point encore nés dans l'abîme,
Ceux qui m'ont visité,
Sauf Goronwy
Des prairies d'Edrywy.
"Longs et blancs sont mes doigts.
Il y a longtemps que j'étais pasteur.
J'ai erré longtemps sur la terre
Avant d'être habile dans les sciences.
J'ai erré, j'ai marché, j'ai dormi dans cent îles,
Je me suis agité dans cent villes.
"O vous, sages druides,
Demandez à Arthur
Qui est plus ancien
Que moi, dans les chants !
quelqu'un est venu
Pour considérer le déluge,
Et le Christ crucifié,
Et le jour du jugement à venir.
"Gemme d'or en un joyau d'or,
Je suis splendide, je suis habile
Au travail des métaux." |
Voilà..._________________________________________________________
Don't travel with a dead man... |
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Akira
Apprenti/Apprentice
Inscrit le : 17 Août 2007
Messages: 27
Localisation : Island
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mhbhrt
Chamane/Shaman
Inscrit le : 12 Nov 2007
Messages: 263
Localisation : England
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| Posté le : Lun Mars 03, 2008 12:15 pm Sujet du message: |
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Hi,
Sorry Venerable, but I don't like the English version you posted.
There's a website named Celtnet about Celtic culture. It's quite interesting.
Please compare its version of the Kad Goddeu with the one from your website:
| Citation: | I was in many forms
before I was set free
I was a narrow blood-spotted sword
I believe, when I was formed
I was teardrops in the air
I was a star-woven star
I was the truth of a letter
I was the tale of origins
I was illuminated lanterns
for a year and a half
I was a bridge that spanned
three-score estuaries
I was a journey, I was an eagle
I was a coracle on the sea
I was the froth on the beer
I was a droplet in a shower [of rain]
I was a sword in hand
I was a shield in battle
I was a string in a harp
a phantom for nine years
foam on the waters
I was a spark in the fire
I was a log in the blaze
I naughty but my song
since I was a little child
I sang in the van at the Battle of the Trees
before the Defender of Britain
There passed me by, fleet-hoofed steeds
treasure-laded fleets
There passed me by a wide-mawed beast
bearing a hundred heads
one mighty host
'neath the root of its tongue
and another host dwells
in the napes of its neck
A black-groined toad
bearing a hundred claws
a mottled, ridged, serpent
with a hundred souls, by their sin
tortured in the folds of its flesh
I was at the fortress of Nefenhir
where trees and grass rushed into battle
minstrels sang
warriors clashed
the war-like hosts
that Gwydion[*] made
Neifion was invoked
as was Christ of the inception
until the time of redemption
by the Lord of all he made
The Lord responded
'through words of reconciliation
conjure noble trees
together as a host
and resist the mob,
unused as they are to battle.'
When trees were conjured
their hope in tree-form
that brought before them trees
plucked from four harp-strings
they cast-down in battle
three war-weary chieftains
sadness tortured the maiden
cut through by the battle cry
Flaxen-tipped the maiden's hair
the spoils of the restless cow.
They did nos manage to disperse us
with the blood of men up to our thighs
the greatest of three bloodsheds
known to the world
and one that happened
was in the form of a flood
and Christ was crucified
with the day of judgement near at hand
The alder at the front line
that foraged first
the willow and rowan trees
were late to join the army
The spiky blackthorn
was eager for slaughter
beloved and powerful
resisted all they saw
rose-trees ventured forth
against a venomous host
the raspberry-tree formed
they made an enclosure
box and honeysuckle,
and ivy in its prime
the surge of giant gorse
cherry trees raised the alarm
Birch-tree, in its great beauty
was delayed by donning his armour,
though not out of cowardice,
but rather from its greatness
Almond trees of valuable nature
foreign wood with exotic form
pine trees in the hall's place of honour
in the great throne of battle
oak, the best, was exalted
before the other rulers
the lime-tree in all its fury
flinched not a single foot
slew in the centre,
then on the left and the right
hazels were adjudged
worthy of the fray
the privet, blessed are they
battle-bull, king of the world
on sea and estuary
the beech excelled
the holly, greened anew
was in the battle
superlative in his cry,
terror dealt from its hand
briony burst forth
breaking the battle ranks
bracken destroyed
broom headed for battle
in the furrows of wounding.
Gorse was not denied
though it be the peasant's bane
Heather, fine and victorious
bewitched your warriors
even pursued your men
The oak rushed
before him heaven and earth trembled
Borage, valiant warrior
his name on the courtry floor
the congress of elms
causing terror
rebuffing all onslaughts
when their defences were breached
Pear, superlative in oppression
on the field of battle.
Their aim to rush into the fray
the awesome thorn-apple
The chestnuts shamed
the pine with its thrust
Jet's nature is black
The mountain's nature is to be bent-backed
The tree's nature is slim at daybreak
Powerful is the nature of the high seas
Ever since I sensed the time [of year]
when leaflets adorn the tips of the birch trees
our revival removing the enchantment [of winter]
The crowns of the oaks have ensnared us
by the incantations of Maeldderw[**]
laughing on the cliff-side
the lord in battle-array
Not from mother or father
Was I engendered
My blood, my creation
from the nine elemental forms
from fruit from fruition
from the first fruit-formation of god
from primroses and highland flowers
from the flowers of trees and shrubs
from soil and earth
was I made
from the flowers of nettles
from the water of the ninth wave
was I charmed [into being] by Math
before I became the gifted one
I was charmed [into being] by Gwydion,
great king of the Brython
as did Eurwys and Euron
and Euron and Modron
and a hundred and fifty mages
learned men, descendants of Math
they fashioned me
the Protector enchanted me
when he was partly burnt
The ways of the mages
conjoured me before the world [was formed]
before its peoples were mine
before the world's extent was set
the beauteous gifts of the finest bard made us all
in verse do I abide by what the tongue tells
I spent my time at daybreak,
I slept in the purple
I was arrayed for battle
by Dylan, scion of the sea
In the circle at the heart of things
between the knees of rulers
like two eager spears
from the heavens they came
flooding into Annwfn
to battle did they come
eight-score hundred
and I pierced them all, despite their aggression
they are not older, they are not younger
than I in their spear-thrusts
the power of a hundred men was mine
each and nine hundred
they were mine
upon my mottled sword the blood
of nobles flows towards me
from god, from the burial where he lay
he came to where the boar was slain
he formed things, he unmade them
he formed languages
Radiant his name, the strong-handed one[⁂]
Lluch[§] leads a host:
'The might of my sparks
fly high at my approach.'
I was a varicoloured serpent on a hill
I was a viper[†] in a lake
I was mad a star by danger
I was a spit, thus
these are my cloak and my cauldron
I am well prepared
four-score puffs of smoke
for all is brought
five battalions of arms
are equal to my knife
six tawny steeds
are a hundred times better
my chestnut mount
is fleet as a seagull
myself, I was not astonished
between the sea and shore
For I have caused carnage
Upon me a hundred parts
My shield is studded with ruddy gems
my shield-strap is of gold
He was not born in the doorway
who was so dear to me
namely Goronwy
from the meadows of Edrywy
My fingers are long and white
It is a long time since I was a herdsman
I dwelt upon the floor
before I became literate
I dwelt [] I went around them
I slept on a hundred isles
I took a hundred forts
Wise druids
foretell to Arthur
that which is and that which once was
to be perceived
from the meaning of the flood
With Christ crucified
and Judgement Day at hand
extolled in honeyed tones
I would conjure shrubs
for I am wanton
with the prophecy of Alchemists. |
Much better, isn't it?_________________________________________________________
All work fetters, as all fire gives smoke.
Only selfless duty save. |
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monkeyman
Apprenti/Apprentice
Inscrit le : 15 Fév 2008
Messages: 20
Localisation : Manhattan, NYC
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| Posté le : Ven Mars 28, 2008 7:50 pm Sujet du message: |
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That's stunning!!
When u compare both translations, there r so many differneces!!
For example:
| mhbhrt a
écrit: | I naughty but my song
since I was a little child
I sang in the van at the Battle of the Trees
before the Defender of Britain |
And
| Mev a
écrit: | I am not he who will not
sing of
A combat though small,
The conflict of the battle of Godau of sprigs.
Against the Guledig of Prydain, |
'doesn't mean the same at all!!
And there r lots 'n lots of variations, or should I call it mistakes, from
Mev's version.
There is one thing I don't cope, the reference about the phnatom:
| mhbhrt a
écrit: | I was a string in a
harp
a phantom for nine years
foam on the waters |
Of course, Mev version is different:
| Mev a
écrit: | I have been a string in
a harp,
Disguised for nine years.
In water, in foam, |
But doen't help neither. I think I get the transmigration allusion in the 1st
part of the poem, but don't get the symbol of the phantom... does someone?
The fun about Celtic people is that, even now, they still believe in
transmigration of the soul. Just have a look at this wiki page: Cunninghamhead, Perceton and Annick
Lodge, the part about 'Scroaggy or Fairliecrevoch Mill'.  |
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